American Express continues to ask for my income (2024)

Many times when I log in to the American Express website a window has popped up asking me to provide my income, and I have always closed the window without providing an answer...so now when I log in there is a banner across the top of the page that says "Please click here to update your income and financial asset information so that we may service you better" and there is no way to close the banner, I see it every time I log in.

My question is, what if I never provide the requested income information? Aside from seeing a permanent banner across the top of the site when I log in, are there any other consequences? Will American Express close my account if I refuse to provide the requested information? I also have a Chase credit card and they have also asked for my income information from time to time and I have also not provided the information and nothing has happened yet.

Realistically they already know/have predicted this information to within a couple of percent just based off of commercially available data on you. Credit bureau information, your spend with them, your spend with other CCs, loans in your name, etc. They just want verification due to the law for any future increases you might request.

I don't even work for a financial firm and we buy up all sorts of personal financial data for our models.

Is the banner annoying? Just enter the information and be done with it. Can you live with it? Then don't.

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:49 amMany times when I log in to the American Express website a window has popped up asking me to provide my income, and I have always closed the window without providing an answer...so now when I log in there is a banner across the top of the page that says "Please click here to update your income and financial asset information so that we may service you better" and there is no way to close the banner, I see it every time I log in.

My question is, what if I never provide the requested income information? Aside from seeing a permanent banner across the top of the site when I log in, are there any other consequences? Will American Express close my account if I refuse to provide the requested information? I also have a Chase credit card and they have also asked for my income information from time to time and I have also not provided the information and nothing has happened yet.

Why don't you want to provide your income? They are facilitating a credit arrangement for you. They have a right to ask for this information. Am I missing something here?

Coincidentally, I just logged in my Amex account this morning, and getting tired of that banner, finally provided the info.

My own experience has been that it doesn't make any difference unless you want more credit. They ask for it for because they are supposed to, as others have mentioned. I've ignored Amex before without issue. Wife and I have many Chase cards and haven't provided the info in years without any impact. I don't mind providing a creditor with the info actually, it's just that my credit lines are perfectly in line with my needs now and I don't want them raised or lowered. So I've been just skipping this process (until this morning with Amex).

Two years ago, Chase did raise one of my credit limits without getting this info anyway. It was their Chase Amazon Prime card and was initially issued with a somewhat low limit compared to my other cards. They decided to make that credit limit "normal" after I had the card for a full year. Without me giving new income info. I gave them a somewhat lower income number (because I was shooting for a moderate limit card) when I opened the card, but it never impacted all those other Chase cards either. That has been the only change on any of our Chase card lines in recent memory.

At least Amex and Chase are clear about their "income" definitions (they are both quite broad in their definitions too). Good for them.

I've never had an issuer increase my credit limit exclusively because my income went up and I reported it in a popup dialog. Does that work?

People who have agreed to extend you credit can ask your income. You don't have to answer and they don't have to keep your account open.

vtjon02 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:27 am

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:49 amMany times when I log in to the American Express website a window has popped up asking me to provide my income, and I have always closed the window without providing an answer...so now when I log in there is a banner across the top of the page that says "Please click here to update your income and financial asset information so that we may service you better" and there is no way to close the banner, I see it every time I log in.

My question is, what if I never provide the requested income information? Aside from seeing a permanent banner across the top of the site when I log in, are there any other consequences? Will American Express close my account if I refuse to provide the requested information? I also have a Chase credit card and they have also asked for my income information from time to time and I have also not provided the information and nothing has happened yet.

Why don't you want to provide your income? They are facilitating a credit arrangement for you. They have a right to ask for this information. Am I missing something here?

What “right?” They don’t have to do business with me nor I with them if the terms aren’t mutually agreeable.

If I have a longstanding account that is paid on time, why do they need now my income? And if it is a legal requirement, then why not say so in the popup — “Under the XYZ Act Of 2016, we are required by law to ask for your current income.”

I finally made up a number for Amex.

There is no verification of the number, so it is useless anyway.

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:06 amThe have a “right” to close my account if I don’t respond, I suppose. But a “right” to ask for my income?

If I have a longstanding account that is paid on time, why do they need my income? And if it is a legal requirement, then why not say so in the popup — “Under the XYZ Act Of 2016, we are required by law to ask for your current income.”

I'm not aware of any legal restriction that prevents a credit card issuer from asking about income, so I think they have the right to ask inasmuch as this is a free country and people are allowed to ask questions. Whether they are legally required to ask is another matter. Of course that does not mean you are required to answer and the credit issuer has the right to close your account for your failure to answer.

Occasionally I get the pop-up at AE, and other CC sites. I haven't provided the info outside an application for a new card, and I have never had an account closed or even had a credit limit lowered.

If the CC company wants to close my account, then I might provide it. At least on a card that I would like to keep.

Broken Man 1999

Broken Man 1999 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:14 amIf the CC company wants to close my account, then I might provide it. At least on a card that I would like to keep.

If you fail to provide it, they may close the account without warning.

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:11 am

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:06 amThe have a “right” to close my account if I don’t respond, I suppose. But a “right” to ask for my income?

If I have a longstanding account that is paid on time, why do they need my income? And if it is a legal requirement, then why not say so in the popup — “Under the XYZ Act Of 2016, we are required by law to ask for your current income.”

I'm not aware of any legal restriction that prevents a credit card issuer from asking about income, so I think they have the right to ask inasmuch as this is a free country and people are allowed to ask questions. Whether they are legally required to ask is another matter. Of course that does not mean you are required to answer and the credit issuer has the right to close your account for your failure to answer.

I suppose they could ask me how many pairs of shoes I own, too.

But I don’t think of being able to ask that question as a “right.” It’s a business decision.

We agree on the larger point that if they want info that I won’t provide, then they can close my account.

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:16 am

Broken Man 1999 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:14 amIf the CC company wants to close my account, then I might provide it. At least on a card that I would like to keep.

If you fail to provide it, they may close the account without warning.

It is certainly their right to do so. On my list of things I worry/care about, it would be pretty much near the bottom. I could probably even replace a closed CC account with a better one, as the closed account might be open simply because of inertia.

Broken Man 1999

cshell2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:59 amIt took a lot more effort to write out this post complaining about them asking than it would have to have just entered it in.

If you got an email asking you to provide your bank account and social security number, it would be a lot easier to just provide it than write a post complaining about it. Just because something is easy does not mean it is right.

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:30 pm

cshell2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:59 amIt took a lot more effort to write out this post complaining about them asking than it would have to have just entered it in.

If you got an email asking you to provide your bank account and social security number, it would be a lot easier to just provide it than write a post complaining about it. Just because something is easy does not mean it is right.

A request for income from your credit card provider is hardly a random spam email asking for your SS number (which I would just delete). If I was extending a line of credit to someone, I'd kind of want an idea of their income too. Besides, you already know you can lie (although, I have no idea what the point of that is either).

cshell2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:53 pmIf I was extending a line of credit to someone, I'd kind of want an idea of their income too.

Sure, but American Express already extended the credit to me years ago and I've been using it regularly since then with no missed payments, and I have a good credit score. Shouldn't that be enough?

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:00 pm

cshell2 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:53 pmIf I was extending a line of credit to someone, I'd kind of want an idea of their income too.

Sure, but American Express already extended the credit to me years ago and I've been using it regularly since then with no missed payments, and I have a good credit score. Shouldn't that be enough?

I suppose they may be concerned about someone who loses his/her job that will affecting his/her ability to pay. You can always put in a number that is less than your income, which I feel is kosher. (I only report my regular W2 income and not my summer teaching pay.)

student wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:04 pmI suppose they may be concerned about someone who loses his/her job that will affecting his/her ability to pay.

Ok, but what's to stop me from typing in a false number even if I lost my job? And you don't have to have a job to have income.

I ignored this request from AMEX for probably more than a year - just closed the pop-up asking for the information. If they said they were required to ask, then I would have no problem providing the information. But they said it was so they could "serve me better", which sounds like they want to offer me products to buy. I finally got tired of the pop-up and put in a number that fits the vague definition of income. I thought about putting in something like $1, but just in case this is a government requirement, I didn't want to lie.

The skeptic in me thinks AMEX will read these responses and craft a pop-up that sounds like a government requirement, but really just means that their Marketing Department requires a response. Something like

We* are required by the new banking policies* to have your yearling income. Please answer the following questions:
What is your yearly income:
How many children live in your household:
Do you shop online:
What major purchases are you looking to make in the next 6 months:

*We means the American Express Marketing Department. Banking policies means the various policies as stated by American Express including the new online deception marketing campaign.

I don't recall seeing a request for income data from AmEx. But earlier this year I decided I wanted to up my credit limit so I went to the AmEx site to submit a request. (Now that I'm taking RMDs, my income has effectively gone up.) I punched in a couple of numbers -- requested limit and income -- and within minutes (seconds?) my wish was granted.

The annoying pop-up I keep getting from another cc company (BoA?) is for my mobile #. Every single time I log in.

UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:14 pmI always provide my correct current income when credit card companies ask. It's really no big deal. People get their hackles up about the oddest things....

You probably naively surf the internet without an approved tin foil hat. To each his/her own.

Seriously though, I try to protect my private information and I'm very skeptical that they are collecting it for my benefit.

If your spending patterns get too far out of line with your stated income or assets you could find yourself facing an infamous Amex financial review. It’s one of many triggers.

If that happens Amex requires your authorization to get your most recent income directly from the IRS. If you decline your accounts will be closed.

I find their pop-ups for me being pre-approved for a loan WAY more annoying, as those also show up each time I login.

I use their iPhone app almost exclusively now, with the above as a contributing factor. Still love our AMEX card, though.

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:09 pm

student wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:04 pmI suppose they may be concerned about someone who loses his/her job that will affecting his/her ability to pay.

Ok, but what's to stop me from typing in a false number even if I lost my job? And you don't have to have a job to have income.

There is nothing to stop you from typing in a false number but do you really want to lie on this? I assume you did not lie on the original application. If you want to be technical on my suggested scenario, I will change it to they may be concerned about a loss of income that will affect one's ability to pay.

I just logged in to see what the big inconvenience is. Indeed, it asks my income (which is pre-filled) and assets, which I estimated and clicked done. Wow, took me almost 12 seconds. How will I cope? How can I go on?

My last time logging in was in 2015.

Texanbybirth wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:38 pmI find their pop-ups for me being pre-approved for a loan WAY more annoying, as those also show up each time I login.

I use their iPhone app almost exclusively now, with the above as a contributing factor. Still love our AMEX card, though.

Popups are terribly annoying and legitimate businesses should stop doing it. Too risky and many bad actors using popups.

I never click on links from an email and I never provide my information to a popup screen. If a site insists, I comply with an entry that meets the requirements for the field (000) 000-0000 or (999) 999-9999 or (123) 456-7890 often suffices. And if not, I close the site and avoid it. I've had scams pop up form seemingly legitimate sites that might have been hacked or serve up content from bad advertisem*nt networks. I'm not taking any chances.

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:26 am

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:11 am

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:06 amThe have a “right” to close my account if I don’t respond, I suppose. But a “right” to ask for my income?

If I have a longstanding account that is paid on time, why do they need my income? And if it is a legal requirement, then why not say so in the popup — “Under the XYZ Act Of 2016, we are required by law to ask for your current income.”

I'm not aware of any legal restriction that prevents a credit card issuer from asking about income, so I think they have the right to ask inasmuch as this is a free country and people are allowed to ask questions. Whether they are legally required to ask is another matter. Of course that does not mean you are required to answer and the credit issuer has the right to close your account for your failure to answer.

I suppose they could ask me how many pairs of shoes I own, too.

But I don’t think of being able to ask that question as a “right.” It’s a business decision.

We agree on the larger point that if they want info that I won’t provide, then they can close my account.

I don't know why you would take it personally but they absolutely have a right to ask for your income when you have an ongoing business relationship with them. You want them to keep your account open. They want updated info from you on your creditworthiness. They get this from your credit report but also from asking you about your income level.

Imagine you were their long standing customer and had a huge credit line to go along with your fantastic credit file and $500k annual income. Then you decide that you are sick of working so hard and take a job that pays you $50k. That is relevant information and they absolutely have a right to ask you about it. Honestly I am shocked that they don't require real income verification for credit cards the way they do for mortgages but that's another story.

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:06 am
If I have a longstanding account that is paid on time, why do they need now my income? And if it is a legal requirement, then why not say so in the popup — “Under the XYZ Act Of 2016, we are required by law to ask for your current income.”

I finally made up a number for Amex.

There is no verification of the number, so it is useless anyway.

Don't do that, misrepresenting your income to a lender (a CC is a line of credit) is loan fraud. You aren't likely to be prosecuted unless you default and have inflated that number, but Amex does do verification for people who have a high credit line with them in certain circ*mstances.

https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/how-t ... from-amex/

Amex has been known to ask for verification of income. Google "amex income verification".

How does Amex define income? Chase uses "Your "total gross annual income" is what you earn or reasonably expect to earn. This includes full-time, part-time, internships or seasonal jobs, self-employment, interest or dividends, investments, retirement, social security benefits and public assistance. You can also include money that someone else deposits regularly into your account (individual or joint). If you're 21 or older and regularly use income from others to pay your bills, you can include that too. Alimony, child support, or separate maintenance income need not be revealed if you do not wish to have it considered as a basis for repaying this obligation." (In viewtopic.php?f=2&t=288983 I wonder how to list income when retired.)

I've been asked, and I don't answer.

If they want to keep making money off me, they'll keep my account open.

If they want to drive my business elsewhere, they'll close it.

I'm not worried.

vtjon02 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:20 pm

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:26 am

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:11 am

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:06 amThe have a “right” to close my account if I don’t respond, I suppose. But a “right” to ask for my income?

If I have a longstanding account that is paid on time, why do they need my income? And if it is a legal requirement, then why not say so in the popup — “Under the XYZ Act Of 2016, we are required by law to ask for your current income.”

I'm not aware of any legal restriction that prevents a credit card issuer from asking about income, so I think they have the right to ask inasmuch as this is a free country and people are allowed to ask questions. Whether they are legally required to ask is another matter. Of course that does not mean you are required to answer and the credit issuer has the right to close your account for your failure to answer.

I suppose they could ask me how many pairs of shoes I own, too.

But I don’t think of being able to ask that question as a “right.” It’s a business decision.

We agree on the larger point that if they want info that I won’t provide, then they can close my account.

Honestly I am shocked that they don't require real income verification for credit cards the way they do for mortgages but that's another story.

That’s my point. If AmEx sent me a letter saying they need to verify my income/assets in order to keep my credit card open, then I would provide whatever documentation that they asked for.

But a popup telling me I’ll get better service if I provide my income? They got a lowball estimate.

MichCPA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:21 pm

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:06 am
If I have a longstanding account that is paid on time, why do they need now my income? And if it is a legal requirement, then why not say so in the popup — “Under the XYZ Act Of 2016, we are required by law to ask for your current income.”

I finally made up a number for Amex.

There is no verification of the number, so it is useless anyway.

Don't do that, misrepresenting your income to a lender (a CC is a line of credit) is loan fraud. You aren't likely to be prosecuted unless you default and have inflated that number, but Amex does do verification for people who have a high credit line with them in certain circ*mstances.

https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/how-t ... from-amex/

Well, that horse is out of the barn.

As I said above, if AmEx wants me to verify my income because they have concerns about my ability to pay, that’s fine.

RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:44 pmI always understate my income to the point that is needed only.

How do you know where that point is?

student wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:40 pm

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:09 pm

student wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:04 pmI suppose they may be concerned about someone who loses his/her job that will affecting his/her ability to pay.

Ok, but what's to stop me from typing in a false number even if I lost my job? And you don't have to have a job to have income.

There is nothing to stop you from typing in a false number but do you really want to lie on this? I assume you did not lie on the original application. If you want to be technical on my suggested scenario, I will change it to they may be concerned about a loss of income that will affect one's ability to pay.

If loss of income is a real concern for AmEx, then why would it accept an undocumented number from you? Wouldn’t it want verification?

vtjon02 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:20 pmHonestly I am shocked that they don't require real income verification for credit cards the way they do for mortgages but that's another story.

A number of credit unions require real income verification in the form of two recent pay stubs.

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:48 pm

RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:44 pmI always understate my income to the point that is needed only.

How do you know where that point is?

I know what I've told the company before (whoever it is).

I know what my credit line is with them, and what my total line is, and what my utilization is. I've NEVER had a credit line decrease, so I know I'm good where I am, so I almost always simply give them the same number within a few thousand.

Normally I have less than 5% of my credit lines utilized. Rarely does it approach 10%.

Jags4186 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:14 pmI don’t understand the hesitation to provide the information. It’s always better to place nice with American Express rather than wait for a possible financial review. AMEX financial reviews are notoriously intrusive and the repercussions for not participating are account closure and blackballing. If you think asking for unverified income voluntarily is intrusive, wait until they freeze your accounts and demand tax returns and bank statements to unfreeze them.

So if AmEx does one of these financial reviews, you basically have the choice of providing the requested documentation or having your account closed?

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:18 pm

Jags4186 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:14 pmI don’t understand the hesitation to provide the information. It’s always better to place nice with American Express rather than wait for a possible financial review. AMEX financial reviews are notoriously intrusive and the repercussions for not participating are account closure and blackballing. If you think asking for unverified income voluntarily is intrusive, wait until they freeze your accounts and demand tax returns and bank statements to unfreeze them.

So if AmEx does one of these financial reviews, you basically have the choice of providing the requested documentation or having your account closed?

Correct. There’s of course always the possibility of providing the documentation and still having your account closed / credit lines reduced.

You can read many horror stories on FlyerTalk. Interestingly enough, this is actually a better scenario than some issuers—if Chase decides for whatever reason you are a risk they will adverse action you without giving you the opportunity to document your ability to pay.

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:49 pm

student wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:40 pm

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:09 pm

student wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:04 pmI suppose they may be concerned about someone who loses his/her job that will affecting his/her ability to pay.

Ok, but what's to stop me from typing in a false number even if I lost my job? And you don't have to have a job to have income.

There is nothing to stop you from typing in a false number but do you really want to lie on this? I assume you did not lie on the original application. If you want to be technical on my suggested scenario, I will change it to they may be concerned about a loss of income that will affect one's ability to pay.

If loss of income is a real concern for AmEx, then why would it accept an undocumented number from you? Wouldn’t it want verification?

First, when you apply for a credit card, they also take a number from you. Same system. As for wanting a verification, they may. It is called financial review. Nobody knows the algorithm. https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/how-t ... from-amex/ https://www.asksebby.com/blog/how-to-av ... an-express https://thepointsguy.com/guide/understa ... l-reviews/

Edit: I see that someone up stream has already given you some links.

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:37 pm

vtjon02 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:20 pm

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:26 am

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:11 am

delamer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:06 amThe have a “right” to close my account if I don’t respond, I suppose. But a “right” to ask for my income?

If I have a longstanding account that is paid on time, why do they need my income? And if it is a legal requirement, then why not say so in the popup — “Under the XYZ Act Of 2016, we are required by law to ask for your current income.”

I'm not aware of any legal restriction that prevents a credit card issuer from asking about income, so I think they have the right to ask inasmuch as this is a free country and people are allowed to ask questions. Whether they are legally required to ask is another matter. Of course that does not mean you are required to answer and the credit issuer has the right to close your account for your failure to answer.

I suppose they could ask me how many pairs of shoes I own, too.

But I don’t think of being able to ask that question as a “right.” It’s a business decision.

We agree on the larger point that if they want info that I won’t provide, then they can close my account.

Honestly I am shocked that they don't require real income verification for credit cards the way they do for mortgages but that's another story.

That’s my point. If AmEx sent me a letter saying they need to verify my income/assets in order to keep my credit card open, then I would provide whatever documentation that they asked for.

But a popup telling me I’ll get better service if I provide my income? They got a lowball estimate.

I think lowball estimate is kosher.

mptfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:49 amMany times when I log in to the American Express website a window has popped up asking me to provide my income, and I have always closed the window without providing an answer...so now when I log in there is a banner across the top of the page that says "Please click here to update your income and financial asset information so that we may service you better" and there is no way to close the banner, I see it every time I log in.

My question is, what if I never provide the requested income information? Aside from seeing a permanent banner across the top of the site when I log in, are there any other consequences? Will American Express close my account if I refuse to provide the requested information? I also have a Chase credit card and they have also asked for my income information from time to time and I have also not provided the information and nothing has happened yet.

I see this question periodically and I always answer this question truthfully. Is there a reason why you will not answer this question truthfully? Is your income inadequate?