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- HelmutBlack
- Junior Standardshifter
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:25 pm
instead of downshifting, how about favoring neutral...
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Postby HelmutBlack »
Hey all,
Thanks for the input on my last question, got another one for well-seasoned folks. I have gotten accustomed to using neutral alot when slowing down. Say I'm in fourth, light way up, traffic slowing, I clutch, throw in neutral, foot off clutch, and coast baby. I only use the brakes at this point if needs be.
Then if I have to accelerate, I find the right gear for the speed I'm travelling at, clutch/shift, and I'm back on my way. Any input on this method? I don't mind using this 'coasting method,' so if it doesn't hurt, then I'll probably keep using it. It's way easier than downshifting all the time....
Peace
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- Krakilin
- Senior Standardshifter
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 1:49 am
- Location: Toronto
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Postby Krakilin »
That's not a good idea, it's not safe to coast with neutral as you have no control over your car.
Why not just leave it 4th gear and then when it drops down to 1000rpm, you clutch to neutral and stop the car.
Sometimes what I do when I'm in 5th gear, because 5th gear when it drops down to 1000rpm your car is still moving pretty fast, and again, it's not good to coast in neutral, so what I do is shift to 2nd gear when 5th gear@1000rpm, I dont' actually engage to that gear, i just shift to it in case i need to move then i can just clutch out, then when the car is slow enough i just put it to neutral and clutch out totally.
I use this method all the time for stop-signs, I slow down, shift to gear2 (but not clutching out), if there are no cars then I add gas, release clutch and go (so then i dont' actually do a dead stop). But if there is a car in on the intersection, then from 2nd gear still clutched down, fully stop my car and shift to 1st gear, and then launch from there.
EDIT:
Your other option is to downshift, but I'm not a big fan of using engine braking just to slow down my car. When 5th Gear reaches 1500rpm, I sometimes downshift to 3rd Gear and coast with that gear the rest of the way till 1000rpm go neutral and stop the car. I find that the 2nd Gear creates too much of a drag.
Last edited by Krakilin on Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
2005 Mazda 3 GT, Metallic Black, GFX package (17inch rim, moonroof, sporty bumpers), Spoiler, 5MT.
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- Sypher
- Master Standardshifter
- Posts: 7337
- Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:52 am
- Cars: 05 Mazda 3 GT
- Location: Hiding behind the dancing Peter Griffin
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Postby Sypher »
Agree with krakilin here. Shifting into neutral is a bad habit. Also it actully uses MORE gas than if you are to leave it in gear. What's happening is that when you let off the gas pedal, the fuel injectors in your car shuts off autmatically and the engine is kept alive by the spinning of your wheels. When you go into neutral, the engine is forced to idle and therefore needs gas to keep it alive. The method that krakilin suggested about staying in gear is much more prefered here. Thats one of the only (if not only) "not downshifting while slowing" methods we endorse here 
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- HelmutBlack
- Junior Standardshifter
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:25 pm
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Postby HelmutBlack »
Ok, sounds good. But to make sure, it's ok to be in 5, 4, 3, etc... and if coasting I slow down to a speed that neccesitates a gear at least two under my current one, it's ok to jump down from 5 to 3, or 4 - 2, etc..??? I read someplace that you should only downshift into the next gear down.
While I'm picking your brains here, the same articles said to never have your foot on the clutch and coasting. Only press it down, get the job done, and get off of it. However, I thought that so long as the clutch pedal is fully depressed, it's not conncected to the engine and therefore, no wear on it. Am I wrong?
Thanks!
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- Krakilin
- Senior Standardshifter
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 1:49 am
- Location: Toronto
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Postby Krakilin »
Downshifting more than 1 gear is ok (5-3, 5-2, 4-2), just make sure you rev-match if you're going to engage in those gears. You might consider double clutching as well to lighten up the synchros... but for slow speeds (since you're slow down already), it shouldn't be a problem
2005 Mazda 3 GT, Metallic Black, GFX package (17inch rim, moonroof, sporty bumpers), Spoiler, 5MT.
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- HelmutBlack
- Junior Standardshifter
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:25 pm
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Postby HelmutBlack »
thanks for the info. I'll have to start working on rev-matching and double clutching. I haven't done any reading on those yet.
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acadien
- Senior Standardshifter
- Posts: 334
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:54 pm
- Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Postby acadien »
I prefer to downshift, but just to save the brakes and gas, honestly, the no control over the car thing isnt much of an issue, you still have control on the brakes ad steering, and it would take like 2 extra seconds to put it in the appropriate gear if you are in neutral.
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- munky49
- Junior Standardshifter
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:15 pm
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Postby munky49 »
This is an interesting topic for a nOOb like me cuz ive been using neutral alot myself when slowing and since when i wait at lights i put it in neutral anyway so i can take my foot off the clutch for a bit but i guess i should get into the practice of downshifting instead.
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- Hatchman
- Master Standardshifter
- Posts: 2687
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:25 pm
- Location: frequently in a FiT often in Etobico*ke
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Postby Hatchman »
Personally, in traffic or at lights, I only pop it into neutral when the car has just about stopped and my RPMs are just a hair above idling level. You can slow down in any gear simply by getting off the gas early and "coasting" in the present gear. Brake as much as required. If you know you're gonna be stopping, just slow down until you have to clutch and brake. Then put it in neutral and wait for the light to change. I downshift when the flow of traffic, my RPMs, and the speed of my car require it. If stopping the car is unnecessary, rev-match and downshift to the appropriate gear for your speed. This works in city and highway situations. I can't imagine using neutral as frequently as you do. Slowing down in gear just seems more effective than slowing down in neutral. It'll save brake wear and fuel, and in messy road conditions, downshifting and avoiding sudden hard braking are better than flying down the road in neutral and hoping you don't skid when you slam on the brakes.
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- Sypher
- Master Standardshifter
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Postby Sypher »
What everyone suggested here is fine and well, but to answer Helmut's question, yes it is possible to skip gears when downshifting; just make sure that you rev-match. Also, yes, you can theoretically coast with the clutch in, however, this is also not a good practice because it puts unneeded wear on the throwout bearing (and possibly some other parts too as some otehr members might suggest). So best bet is to either downshift, or "coast" in gear until you are near idle.
Also, at your current state, I would not suggest double clutching yet. If you haven't figured out how to rev match as if its second nature, I wouldn't try advance techniques yet.
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- i97supratti
- Junior Standardshifter
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:20 pm
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Postby i97supratti »
Quick question. When going from any gear to neutral, I heard you can do it without using the clutch. I heard you can slow down to around 1500k rpms and the shifter will be easy to move into neutral. Around that rpm in my car tho, the shifter still won't move. I still need to push in clutch and change it..
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- Hatchman
- Master Standardshifter
- Posts: 2687
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:25 pm
- Location: frequently in a FiT often in Etobico*ke
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Postby Hatchman »
I'd push down the cluth before popping into neutral, just to be on the safe side.
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- HelmutBlack
- Junior Standardshifter
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:25 pm
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Postby HelmutBlack »
Thanks all. Happy new year.
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- Sypher
- Master Standardshifter
- Posts: 7337
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- Cars: 05 Mazda 3 GT
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Postby Sypher »
It is possible to shift into neutral without the clutch. It is not recommeneded but you can do it. I've done it before when i pannic'd as a newbie. When i did it, i was up near 5K rpm. If you're wondering, yes i misshifted 
; suppose to downshift to 4 from 5th, missed and got into 2nd. I panniced and popped it into neutral w/o the clutch.
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- IMBoring25
- Moderator
- Posts: 3419
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:01 pm
- Location: OK, USA
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Postby IMBoring25 »
The key for a clutchless shift is just like the key for a smooth clutched shift: Positioning the gas appropriately so that there is zero load through the transmission. The easiest way to do this is to slow the car until the engine is spinning a hair above idle speed and then gently ease the shifter towards neutral (Don't force it). It's also possible to add the gas appropriate for rev-matching at any speed and RPM, but that's harder to get right.
I've been known to do it from time to time, and it's not too much harder on the equipment if done correctly. However, the consequences for a mistake are much higher.
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