| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-6 12:10 am Mikrotik's RouterOS vs OpenWRTI have ordered a hEX to play around with. I dont know anything about Mikrotik but I picked this device specifically because it has full OpenWRT support and I originally wanted a basic 1Gbps router with OpenWRT and no wifi. From reading around, it seems that RouterOS can be overly complicated and unnecessarily difficult to get fully setup but it looks like it might be very powerful and robust from what I saw on Mikrotik's site. Is there any redeeming quality about RouterOS compared to OpenWRT? I am only a tiny bit familiar with OpenWRT as I installed it on a netgear 3500SW router and turned it into a wireless bridge. It was not super simple to do that but there was tons of documentation out there to help get me through it. If RouterOS is more complicated than OpenWRT, I'm not sure I could even learn how to deal with RouterOS. The TLDR version is this: Is it worthwhile to try and learn RouterOS or just dont waste time with it and jump straight to OpenWRT? |
· actions · 2024-Jan-6 12:10 am · | |
| HELLFIRE | HELLFIRE MVM 2024-Jan-6 1:50 am I dont know anything about Mikrotik but I picked this device specifically because it has full OpenWRT support Presume you mean this? -- »openwrt.org/toh/mikrotik ··· rb760igs but it looks like it might be very powerful and robust from what I saw on Mikrotik's site. This give you a starting point for the capabilities of RouterOS? -- »wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/M ··· nual:TOC Put simply, if you want more knobs and buttons than bog-standard hxxp://192.168.x.x-type kit or alt firmwares like ddwrt and tomato, but aren't ready for The Big Boy Leagues(TM) My Networking 00000010bits Regards |
· actions · 2024-Jan-6 1:50 am · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-6 10:15 am Presume you mean this? -- »openwrt.org/toh/mikrotik ··· rb760igs That is the hEX S. I went for this one: »openwrt.org/toh/mikrotik ··· rb750gr3 Put simply, if you want more knobs and buttons than bog-standard hxxp://192.168.x.x-type kit or alt firmwares like ddwrt and tomato, but aren't ready for The Big Boy Leagues(TM) When you say "go for it," were you meaning one of the two options or do you just mean pick one, doesn't matter, and go for it? I dont really want more knobs and whistles, I just want something that is secure and updated regularly. I'm not going to ever do things like VLANs, hosted VPN server at the router, VPN client at the router, port aggregation, etc. I mainly like to have control over DNS servers, port forwarding, IPv6, etc. and QoS. My main drive with this was to get more into QoS for low bandwidth connections and get better IPv6 support/stability. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-6 10:15 am · | |
|
|
kevinds to badtlc4 Premium Member 2024-Jan-6 11:00 am Is there any redeeming quality about RouterOS compared to OpenWRT? Does there need to be? They are different. One isn't better than the other. The TLDR version is this: Is it worthwhile to try and learn RouterOS or just dont waste time with it and jump straight to OpenWRT? I find RouterOS much easier to use than OpenWRT but I also do complex configurations. I would really dislike needing to use SSH to change configurations on OpenWRT. The default configuration works very well as DHCP WAN on port 1, ports 2-5 bridged for LAN. As for Difficult to get fully setup, it depends on what you fully setup means to you. What do you dislike about the RouterOS updates? ProTip.. Do not use the web-UI.. Download and use WinBox for a GUI, which is a Windows application but is designed/tested to work with wine too. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-6 11:00 am · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-6 1:26 pm Thanks. Will try it out before changing then. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-6 1:26 pm · | |
| HELLFIRE | HELLFIRE to badtlc4 MVM 2024-Jan-6 3:31 pm That is the hEX S. I went for this one: »openwrt.org/toh/mikrotik ··· rb750gr3 Thank you for correcting that. I dont really want more knobs and whistles, I just want something that is secure and updated regularly. I'm not going to ever do things like VLANs, hosted VPN server at the router, VPN client at the router, port aggregation, etc. I mainly like to have control over DNS servers, port forwarding, IPv6, etc. and QoS. My main drive with this was to get more into QoS for low bandwidth connections and get better IPv6 support/stability. That's the tradeoff I see here -- "regularly updated software" vs "additional complexity and effort to learn." There's basic configs you can find online to crib from, but much like copying someone else's homework without learning and/or understanding the material itself, An option to consider is to not plug the HEX into the internet yet till you take some time to play with it -- both on RouterOS and on OpenWRT -- THEN when you Bottom Line : your needs and requirements, weigh your option(s) accordingly. My 00000010bits Regards |
· actions · 2024-Jan-6 3:31 pm · | |
| coxhaus | coxhaus to badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-7 6:38 pm You might want to take a look at Cisco small business line of switches and wireless APs. I find their GUI very straightforward and easy to use for even complex network configurations. I run a Pfsense router into my Cisco CBS350 switch setup using layer 3 routing. My 3 Cisco 150ax wireless APs are fed by my Cisco switch using POE+. I have a Smart APC battery backing up my modem, router and switch which keeps the APs battery backup also. I have had power go off and I am still working on my laptop on the internet. No issues. I have like 4 hours of battery power. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-7 6:38 pm · | |
|
|
Hagar to badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-7 9:22 pm I am with the others 6 vs half a dozen, different. Who is your go-to person to help when you get stuck? I would use what they use. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-7 9:22 pm · | |
| cramer Cisco PIX 501 | cramer to badtlc4 Premium Member 2024-Jan-7 10:19 pm It was not super simple to do that... I hate to say it, but that's likely the simplest thing you'll ever do with OpenWRT. (assuming getting it installed in the first place isn't the leap off a cliff.) |
· actions · 2024-Jan-7 10:19 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 to Hagar Member 2024-Jan-8 10:45 am Who is your go-to person to help when you get stuck? I would use what they use. This forum! Ha...The OpenWRT forums are fairly helpful, too. I think Mikrotik has some support forums but not sure. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-8 10:45 am · | |
| | badtlc4 to cramer Member 2024-Jan-8 10:48 am It was not super simple to do that... I hate to say it, but that's likely the simplest thing you'll ever do with OpenWRT. (assuming getting it installed in the first place isn't the leap off a cliff.) Setting up OpenWRT to a basic wifi router was pretty simple compared to turning it into a wireless bridge. The bridge part was doable but it took me an hour or two of researching and testing before I got it right. having said that, that wireless bridge has been running for 3 years now without a single reboot or hiccup. It is not located at my house so I cannot support it easily if it did have any issues. That has been a huge relief. I have been highly impressed with OpenWRT stability. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-8 10:48 am · | |
| cramer Cisco PIX 501 | cramer Premium Member 2024-Jan-8 9:56 pm Setting up a "router" as a wireless bridge is THE simplest task in networking. Why there needs to be a million pages across the internet explaining how baffles me... Step 1, give the device a LAN address that won't conflict with anything. Step 2, turn off the internal DHCP server. Step 3, there is no step 3, you're done. Don't use the "WAN" port, and you have your bridge. (hint: out of the box it's already a LAN-WiFi bridge, but it wants to own that LAN) |
· actions · 2024-Jan-8 9:56 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-15 4:53 pm been dabbling in RouterOS for a couple days. Definitely overwhelming. I think I might just end up on OpenWRT. There are more detailed and direct guides available for OpenWRT from the looks of it. It appear in recent RouterOS updates, they are trying to create some simple configuration options kinda like your basic residential grade routers but they haven't quite got there with it yet. I can't figure out basic things how to figure out what the firewall is block and passing. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-15 4:53 pm · | |
|
|
kevinds Premium Member 2024-Jan-15 5:09 pm It appear in recent RouterOS updates, they are trying to create some simple configuration options kinda like your basic residential grade routers but they haven't quite got there with it yet. Huh? Can you explain what you mean by that? The basic, simple configuration, like a residential gateway is the default configuration out of the box.. It has been fine for the past 15 years. As I said before, DHCP on port 1 for your internet connection, ports 2-5 are bridged together for your LAN. There are more detailed and direct guides available for OpenWRT from the looks of it. Again, where are you looking? but they haven't quite got there with it yet. Specifically, what is wrong with the default configuration? I can't figure out basic things how to figure out what the firewall is block and passing. By default it blocks unsolicited incoming traffic and provides NAT for the LAN. The actual rules.. IP-Firewall The Filter and NAT tabs have most of the configuration. But yes, they are real routers and will have a steep learning curve. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-15 5:09 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-15 6:36 pm They have a quick settings page in the settings that covers some basic wan and and lan settings but doesn't cover things like ipv6, DNS servers, etc. when I wonder away from that quick settings page the only thing that was simple was updating the os and the boot firmware. Is it setup by default for offloading or does it NAT everything? Each day I make it a little further with this thing. I feel like I need years of Cisco certifications before I could ever fully understand everything going on. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-15 6:36 pm · | |
|
|
billaustin MVM 2024-Jan-15 7:43 pm Are you using Winbox or the web interface? Winbox is easier to use. There are a lot of guides out there to help set it up. It can be overwhelming at first, but is not all that difficult. RouterOS has the configuration capabilities and complexity of the Cisco OS. It can do pretty much whatever you need. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-15 7:43 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-15 7:48 pm Are you using Winbox or the web interface? Winbox is easier to use. There are a lot of guides out there to help set it up. It can be overwhelming at first, but is not all that difficult. RouterOS has the configuration capabilities and complexity of the Cisco OS. It can do pretty much whatever you need. I have tried both web interface and Winbox. They appear identical to me. Maybe the web interface got a recent update? |
· actions · 2024-Jan-15 7:48 pm · | |
|
|
kevinds to badtlc4 Premium Member 2024-Jan-15 8:06 pm Quick-Set is only for the initial setup. After the initial setup, it isn't really used (it was recently brought to my attention it can be used to easily set up port-forwards, so that can be an exception). IPv6 has its own settings menu. DNS is IP-DNS or IP-DHCPServer-Networks, depending on which DNS settings you want to change. Winbox vs the web-UI, yes, they do the same thing but Winbox is far nicer to use. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-15 8:06 pm · | |
|
|
mozerd to badtlc4 MVM 2024-Jan-17 4:16 pm The hEX or the hEX s are excellent routers. The default configuration on either suits 98% of home users and is very safe. Tik software/firmware gets updated frequently. OpenWRT is a memory hog because it’s bloated [feature rich] …. Since COVID Tik firmware/software updates are not as stable as they historically have been I suspect due to staff changes … it will probably take some time for the updates to become stable again maybe by year end as the new staff become much more professional…. Insofar as the hEX is concerned I recommend RouterOS V 7.13.1 … |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 4:16 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-17 4:37 pm The hEX or the hEX s are excellent routers. The default configuration on either suits 98% of home users and is very safe. Tik software/firmware gets updated frequently. OpenWRT is a memory hog because it’s bloated [feature rich] …. Since COVID Tik firmware/software updates are not as stable as they historically have been I suspect due to staff changes … it will probably take some time for the updates to become stable again maybe by year end as the new staff become much more professional…. Insofar as the hEX is concerned I recommend RouterOS V 7.13.1 … Thanks. That is some feedback I was looking for. I'd prefer to stick with whatever is least resource hungry and keep things simple. I'll just hunker down and grind through the guides/documentation as needed to do things I want to do with RouterOS. The next thing on my list is I want to figure out what Winbox can do that the web gui cant. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 4:37 pm · | |
|
|
kevinds Premium Member 2024-Jan-17 5:01 pm The next thing on my list is I want to figure out what Winbox can do that the web gui cant. The answer is nothing. The web-UI can do everything that Winbox can.. The web-UI is terrible to use though. It works, but just works. Winbox is responsive and fast, the web-UI is slow and awkward. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 5:01 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-17 5:05 pm The next thing on my list is I want to figure out what Winbox can do that the web gui cant. The answer is nothing. The web-UI can do everything that Winbox can.. The web-UI is terrible to use though. It works, but just works. Winbox is responsive and fast, the web-UI is slow and awkward. OK, well that was quick. Now onto SQM/QoS settings. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 5:05 pm · | |
|
|
kevinds Premium Member 2024-Jan-17 5:21 pm OK, well that was quick. It had been said more than once in this thread, Winbox is nicer. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 5:21 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-17 5:31 pm OK, well that was quick. It had been said more than once in this thread, Winbox is nicer. I just assumed it was nicer because there had to be feature, even if small, that was better than the gui. But being faster is a nice feature. I havent noticed any slowness to the web GUI but now I want to do some things and see if I can tell the difference. Do upgrades execute the same way via web GUI and winbox? |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 5:31 pm · | |
|
|
kevinds Premium Member 2024-Jan-17 5:37 pm Do upgrades execute the same way via web GUI and winbox? File uploads are easier in Winbox, can just drag&drop anywhere in the window, is the only functional difference I am aware of, if you update by uploading the npk file. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 5:37 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Jan-17 5:41 pm Do upgrades execute the same way via web GUI and winbox? File uploads are easier in Winbox, can just drag&drop anywhere in the window, is the only functional difference I am aware of, if you update by uploading the npk file. Thanks. While you are here... Is there a way to tell if offloading or fastracking is enabled? |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 5:41 pm · | |
|
|
kevinds Premium Member 2024-Jan-17 6:17 pm It is by default.. Put some traffic though and look at the interfaces window, if it shows traffic in the FastPath columns, it is enabled. |
· actions · 2024-Jan-17 6:17 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Apr-3 4:18 pm Just to update this a bit. Finally get the hEX up and running a couple weeks ago on 1Gbps fiber. Updated RouterOS to 7 (came with 6) first before beginning. I do really like winbox. I also like that I can experiment with settings and never have to reboot. I get to tinker while everyone else still uses the internet with no issues. The biggest learning curve so far is learning to firewall. I want to setup a very basic zoning firewall when I can figure out how to do it. Having got this far, now I really want to get a hEX S with the SFP port and then get an ONT SFP stick so I can do away with my BGW320 gateway. But I might be moving to Google Fiber anyway in which case the standard hEX will work perfectly fine and I save $100. If I decide to just stick with At&t 300 or 500Mbps service, I'll definitely get a hEX S and ONT SFP stick. |
· actions · 2024-Apr-3 4:18 pm · | |
|
|
kevinds Premium Member 2024-Apr-3 5:02 pm I do really like winbox. I also like that I can experiment with settings and never have to reboot. Yes, that is what you were told.. Not having to reboot is a consumer router thing.. There is rarely an actual need to reboot. Professional routers only get rebooted on firmware updates. One of my hEX units, the uptime counter recently reset (~500 days).. The biggest learning curve so far is learning to firewall. I want to setup a very basic zoning firewall when I can figure out how to do it. ProTip: Use Raw instead of Filter firewall rules when you can. Raw rules have a lot less impact on the CPU than Filter rules do. |
· actions · 2024-Apr-3 5:02 pm · | |
| badtlc4 | badtlc4 Member 2024-Apr-3 10:02 pm ProTip: Use Raw instead of Filter firewall rules when you can. Raw rules have a lot less impact on the CPU than Filter rules do. That sounds crazy helpful... Now I just need to learn what that means. Thank you! |
· actions · 2024-Apr-3 10:02 pm · | |
Winbox is nicer.
